What's more important: equality or chivalry? If you're going to say "both", expand, but then make a choice! Cos guys aren't omnipotent omnipresent superthings. Although one may be led to believe so by entertainment media aimed at young adults D:
What do you feel/think/do if a few (3 or 4 ish) other people had a crush on your bf/gf?
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What's more important: equality or chivalry? If you're going to say "both", expand, but then make a choice! Cos guys aren't omnipotent omnipresent superthings. Although one may be led to believe so by entertainment media aimed at young adults D:
I kinda barred the people who asked "uhmm whats equality. like is it being equal. or is it liek, not being mean and stuff". Like seriously, come on.
-umm equality? FAIRNESS FTW
-CHIVALRY :)
And what are you talking about jeff, guys are CLEARLY omnipotent, omnipresent superthings. Tv says so.
-well, you kinda need both right ^^" ... i mean i dont think youre going to be a very good chaser without a sense of chivalry, or a very good keeper without equality... so i guess guys are supposed to [yes, omnipotently omnpresently superly] know which one to whip out and when. :) this is why im going to be forever alone with 82 cats i know (x uuh even then make a choice... id say equality just because chivalry seems completely nonexistent now ._. ..
-both, because in my poor media-driven mislead mind, i expect you to surpass these limits of ability and be the perfect man that we all crave at the bottom of our hearts. c'mon, if we can write about them in novels, they must have been inspired by some superthing that could pull it off ;)
-both
equality as to not treating the girl like she's a little girl
chivalry as to treating the girl that the way that they should be treated
i'd say both, can't make up my mind hahaha lol
-I don't even know what half of those words mean.. But yes both are important; except too much chivalry is a nono.. Wait, I think equality is more important lol. I mean dude, girls can manage by themselves. Relationships should be more partnerships(?) where both parties give and take, rather than the whole girl relies solely on the guy for everything kinda thing..
Okay I don't even think that happens in real life maybe I've just seen too many Korean dramas.. Well yes, it's really bad in Korean society - the girl is supposed to be some fragile thing incapable of doing ANYTHING herself apart from being cute; while the guy runs around doing everything he can for her.
Please; I can walk without tripping alright?
-I think I get what you mean here.. the guy being chivalrous could be taken as treating girls as if they're delicate in a sorta old fashioned way, rather than treating girls as equals?
Lol equality thanks, especially considering that guys bring out the unladylike in me. But non-chivalry doesn't mean assholey right? :P
-I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS QUESTION, JEFFALUMP!
Are you talking about the things guys do for girls? Like paying the bill etc. etc.?
Well, I guess equality? I actually don't know.
I feel uncomfortable when someone else pays for something for me, especially at the age we're at because it's not like they have a work job, if that makes sense?
I don't know!
The whole chivalry-opening-the-door-thing is cute and stuff, but O_O
It seems so mature.
I'd just rather we call each other idiots and give piggy back rides and do stupid things.
I think I'm going off on a tangent ...
-OK FIRST I MUST SAY I AM SORT OF CONFUSED BY THIS.. so sorry if i'm offbase. but i assume you mean in terms of behaviour, like opening doors and things?
equality, always. i don't have any need for gendered chivalry. i think there's a definite difference between what's done to be polite/good manners and condescending, belittling behaviour.
so like, i appreciate it when people hold doors open for me but i do hope it's coming from a place where they'd hold doors open for anyone, not just females. if that makes sense. er and idk if anyone actually does this anymore, but shit like making the girl walking on the inside of the street (i.e. away from the cars) is ridiculous to me. no thanks to that infantilising bullshit. the same to insisting on holding something for me because i'm a girl.
/disappears back into the mist
-You should do those things because you want to, not because you're the guy and you're obliged to. If they like you doing things like that for them they'll (hopefully) show it, it will make you feel good about yourself and you will naturally want to do more. If they do nothing or feel annoyed then well, no need to force yourself.
I think a lot of people have different views on this. So, depending on who you're with, they may or may not like you doing those kinds of things for them, its just up to you to get to know who you're with and act accordingly.
tl;dr neither. it varies so much that there's no point in putting one above the other.
What do you feel/think/do if a few (3 or 4 ish) other people had a crush on your bf/gf?-'hey you want him? WELL TOO BAD HES MINE HAHAHAHA' no. uh. whatthefuck i dont think its very nice to go around admitting you have a crush on a person in a relationship in the first place, and id like to think that people would have the courtesy to not spread shit like that around if i were ever in that situation and i would be blissfully unaware. :)
-i'd probably be insecure because it's me, but in the end... your bf/gf is with YOU not them for some reason, and you've got to trust that that's strong enough to not feel worried :)
-hypothetically, i would think to myself dayum im lucky to hav such as attractive bf. I THINK.
-HAHA it depends on whether he enjoys it or not. I suspect it would be quite an ego boost for him, but I think handling the attention of 3 other girls is quite frightening :P So goodluck to him! He'll come crawling back eventually ;)
-I would feel a little less happy and try and make sure the boyf doesn't do anything. BUUUUUT he is my boyf so i should be able to trust him :)
-Wow I'm one lucky girl LOL.
But yeah insecurity (why would he pick me etc. etc. oh no does he talk to them much etc. etc.)
-Lol hmm.. Insecure, but kinda makes you proud that they chose you LOL. That's terrible. ><
-Good question! Proud, defensive and insecure all at the same time. Funny thing, isn't it?
The Actual Post
OKAY OKAY, tl;dr? Sorry I just found those interesting.
So I'm thinking about equality. I'm actually confused. What IS equality? Do you want me to treat you exactly like my guy friends? If not, at what point is there "enough" equality? Because previously I thought that it was equal enough, but apparently not.
At the same time, equality can never be achieved so long as there are still girls/women who want guys/men to pay for each date, or expect guys to apologise first after every argument.
I was interested in this comment: "c'mon, if we can write about them in novels, they must have been inspired by some superthing that could pull it off ;)". I disagree. If you can write about them in novels, it means that they are fantastical and detached enough from reality to capture the teenage audience. I could totally write a story about the perfect world and perfect person. In fact, I would be basing said perfect person on all the imperfections I have noted in real life people. The "Don't miss the water till the well runs dry" effect - it's much easier to notice what you don't have, than what you do have. So what I'm saying is, if the author was in an unsatisfactory relationship, it would probably be easier to write a story about a perfect relationship, as opposed to an author in a great one.
And Crystal's answer has an interesting point: "I feel uncomfortable when someone else pays for something for me, especially at the age we're at because it's not like they have a work job, if that makes sense?". Another reason why entertainment media is warped. The TV show depicts people who are all adults and have cars, and have the freedom to go where they way. For some reason, TV shows depicting teenagers show the teenage guys as having an unlimited amount of cash to spend on a girl, can drive (a flashy car), and for some reason neither the boyfriend nor girlfriend don't seem to have parents, or a need to study. Or if when they study, they get distracted within 5 seconds.
From Amanda's answer: "equality, always. i don't have any need for gendered chivalry... so like, i appreciate it when people hold doors open for me but i do hope it's coming from a place where they'd hold doors open for anyone, not just females." I really like this. I don't have anything to add.
Yes I guess I'm kinda rebelling against the TV-guy mould. Somewhat of a stigma I have developed after hearing expectations based on TV guys. And being compared to them. Sue me. I'm annoyed cos they're all perfect and stuff. But what (some?) people fail to realise is that
a) Real life boyfriends are present 24/7. That's 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. TV boyfriends are present 1/1. That's 1 hour a week. At the very best, assuming it's a long episode TV show, and also that the boyfriend is present throughout the whole episode (highly unlikely. Or if that's true, the show's gonna get axed soon). If you were to condense any real relationship into 1hour a week, then I'm sure there's more than enough perfect bits to fill out the 1/1 quota that TV boyfriends fill.
b) Nobody knows what you're going to say next. For that matter, I don't even know what I'm going to say next. Because the real world isn't scripted. Nobody thinks of the perfect line every time. Nobody knows for sure how the other person reacts. Nobody can really understand the other person truly and always. For the record, people can not mysteriously see into the other person's home and see that they are holding a photo and crying or something like that. And if I do stuff like that, neither can you. And those parts are an important part of why the TV guys are "perfect". IE real life guys care more than you know, mainly cos you don't see them all the time. TV guys care exactly as much as you now cos the highlights of the week (including stalker-ish home shots) have all been condensed.
c) Some of the guys on TV make it so easy for the girl. They know exactly what to say, what to do, in the most amazing situations (as well as, occasionally, in an situation that actually exists in real life. Occasionally.) Conversely, some girls on TV make it extremely easy for the guy as well. Some are portrayed as stupid things with no personalities, and will have sex if you buy them a drink and tell them you're a doctor.
Anyway, on a change of note. Maybe you'd be interested in my answer to the two questions?
For the first one (chivalry):
I guess equality, but still quite far from being treated on the same level as my guy friends. Mainly cos the situations I get into with guy friends and a girlfriend are completely different.
For example, I would offer to pay every time. But I will only insist twice before letting you split the bill. I get pissed when you call me up afterwards on not paying. I say "fuck you", because I'm not gonna take this shit just cos you're a girl.
Yeah another point is that I'm not going to relinquish my dignity and my views what I think is right just because you're a girl. I am happy to apologise, or change my views, if you give me a good reason to. But not just beceause you're a girl.
As a side note, I don't think guys should be putting down seats for guys, I think girls should be lifting toilet seats up for guys. If gender-based chivalry wasn't such a big thing when toilets were invented, then it would definitely be girls lifting for guys. I will justify myself in another blog post if enough people rage about this, but I'll leave it like this for now.
For the second one (the girlfriend with many crushes) [as I answered on Formspring when Max asked me back]:
Ha. I would feel lucky, but at the same time insecure. I guess it's more acceptable if you don't know the people (ie they're from work/tutoring, etc) than if it were from the same school, or at least somewhere where you guys go often. But then again if you knew the people, you'd be like "hell yeah I am the chosen one!"
Anyway it's easy to be insecure especially if the crushes came after you guys started going out.
And then there are the crushes that do things that I am totally uncomfortable with T.T
Ehh the perspective kept changing from "you" to "I", but you get the gist, right?.
Wow this was epicly long. Congratumalations if you've reached this point 8D. Double congratumalations if you read all the copy pasted Formspring answers too!
10 comments:
>As a side note, I don't think guys should be putting down seats for guys, I think girls should be lifting toilet seats up for guys.
solution: everyone puts the lid down instead. guys lift both the lid and seat while girls just lift the lid. its also more hygenic because the toilet water doesnt splash onto the seat!!!!!
okay seriously, i can understand why you say girls should be lifting toilet seats for guys but as a girl i feel extremely annoyed when the toilet seat is up. not because of the fact that its "up" but more because i usually don't see that its up and sit down..........
>What IS equality? Do you want me to treat you exactly like my guy friends?
depending on what you do with your guy friends...
but i guess i do want a relationship where we can sort of be friends but are still dating?
and to finally answer your original question, equality. i want them to treat me like they'd treat their friends but in a romantic way. and i'd treat them like i treat my friends. if that made any sense
if i was dating a guy then i'd hold doors open for him too haha
this post + reply took too much time out of my "study" time ;_;
BAHAHA I LOVE THE SOLUTION. THOUGH I MAY ADD THAT IT'S COMPLETELY AGAINST LOGIC. Yeah I get why that can be nasty... and winter is coming. Though if society flips its norms and the seats are always up, then that wouldn't be a problem cos you'd always assume the seats are up.
Yeah friends while we're still dating is practically ALL you can do in high school. It's not like you can contemplate having babies or getting married...
Lol guys punch each other when the other is stupid. And I can say practically anything without being flamed/threatened to be broken up with. Guys think regular conversations about penises, pubes and boobs are completely normal. I think I can quite safely say I would not have a girlfriend anymore if I told her that I found a straight pube or something :L
Bahaha I think the guy would rather you treated him like friends but also in a romantic way. Why else would he ask you out :L
>Guys think regular conversations about penises, pubes and boobs are completely normal.
anon from before here
sounds like a perfectly normal conversation to me!
>I think I can quite safely say I would not have a girlfriend anymore if I told her that I found a straight pube or something :L
if my boyfriend said that to me i wouldnt break up haha. probably gross him out with period stories lol. i wonder if i'd still have a boyfriend then?
about my friends comment, i mentioned it because it seems dramas make things TOO romantic if that makes sense. like somethings are cute but it gets a bit creepy. some actions in dramas if done in real life...would make me extremely uncomfortable.
-sounds like a perfectly normal conversation to me!
O.O who are you. we could have LOTS to talk about :L
-if my boyfriend said that to me i wouldnt break up haha. probably gross him out with period stories lol. i wonder if i'd still have a boyfriend then?
On a regular enough basis, it would annoy the crap out of some people. I also personally don't get grossed out by period stories. I sometimes pretend I am because otherwise the people within earshot start judging me. But I find them interesting (and funny, if you tell it that way)
-some actions in dramas if done in real life...would make me extremely uncomfortable.
Yeah I always wondered if that were true. Thanks for confirming! =D
LOL to anon - i am so curious as to who you are:D
girl speakinghere:
Whilst I personally wouldnt be completely grossed out by ' my boyfriend telling me he had a straight pube' i would be a bit weirded out? (btw: is this out of the blue informing or relevant to convo prehand?)
(assuming its out of the blue)
ie: it wouldnt be disgusting, but itd be strange. Like your teacher telling you she/he has a sex life. its not ''DISGUSTING ew omg teachers DO that'' - its more of a ''uh cool thats nice . . :/'' scenario.
if it was related to some talk / convo youve had before then itd be totally cool, whatever. :)
but-uh-just establishing as well: regular, continual pube-updates is probably not advisable - it would get a bit annoying / immature( if you make it sound that way) / strange.
and YES some drama romantic moments would be plain creepy in real life!
> As a side note, I don't think guys should be putting down seats for guys, I think girls should be lifting toilet seats up for guys.
this made more sense than i expected. if guys didn't lift the toilet seat, girls would be dealing with dirty toilets.
but, i'm fine with putting down toilet seats so i would prefer a situation where guys lift seats if they need to and girls put down seats if they need to.
>b) Nobody knows what you're going to say next. For that matter, I don't even know what I'm going to say next. Because the real world isn't scripted. Nobody thinks of the perfect line every time. Nobody knows for sure how the other person reacts. Nobody can really understand the other person truly and always.
this is why i think in relationships, being entirely honest (i.e. telling the truth AND not leaving out stuff) is more important than being romantic. if your SO said something that made you pissed or felt unromantic, say so. it's like those things that recommend you stuff based on what you've liked: it gets better the more information you've fed it.
also the answers for your formspring questions were interesting to read (: in fact earlier today i read one of the questions and an answer and wanted to read the other answers but cbf finding them xD
@anon
Lol yes it would be random. Or maybe relevantised by saying "I was trimming my pubes the other day". If that makes it any better.
Yeah yeah it's kind of obvious that talking about this stuff to a girl is kinda stupid.
And =)
@cloudier
Ahaha yeah also sitting down and bringing down the seat can be done in one motion, as well as standing back up and lifting it.
And yeah, I get why there is such a huge emphasis on communication now. Unsaid stuff is really bloody annoying. Lol your analogy made me smile :L
And yeah Formspring is the awesomes. Learning stuff without making mistakes. Or, sometimes, proving that while I may not be right, I am most definitely not wrong 8D
man i was never taught to do anything with the toilet seat after im done so it's just done if i was pooping and up if i was peeing. no one in my house has EVER said anything to me before about it o.O
femanon: i've never understood all the 'girls griping about toilet seats'. it's not that hard to tell whether the seat's down or not, and it takes about one second if it's not. plus, guys don't complain if you don't put it up for them.
personally though, like the first anon, i put the lid down (after watching that episode of mythbusters).
I'm interested; what happened in that ep of mythbusters? What'd they prove/disprove?
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